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Helk  2012-11-09 08:29:00

"Not even Moses..."

Are you saying Moses was a permissive guy? I know he had a brother who seemed like he might have been an Angel.

If you know what I mean by Angel.

RL  2012-11-07 12:29:00


I've read the book, thank you. Enough to know that the OT is prequel to the NT.

The resentful and superior always prefer the Old Testament. Job is outraged. David is enraged. Christianity was a step function change. A step many people can't make.

But not even Moses thought it was okay to do whatever we want because, hey, we're all human and in the same damn fix. That's not a religion or a moral sensibility. It's a cop-out. Maybe you should move to San Francisco and become a guru. Big bucks in that, I hear.

Helk  2012-11-07 12:18:00

Read the book.

Job is just one example.

1“I loathe my very life;

therefore I will give free rein to my complaint

and speak out in the bitterness of my soul.

2I will say to God: Do not condemn me,

but tell me what charges you have against me.

3Does it please you to oppress me,

to spurn the work of your hands,

while you smile on the schemes of the wicked?

4Do you have eyes of flesh?

Do you see as a mortal sees?

5Are your days like those of a mortal

or your years like those of a man,

6that you must search out my faults

and probe after my sin—

7though you know that I am not guilty

and that no one can rescue me from your hand?

8“Your hands shaped me and made me.

Will you now turn and destroy me?

9Remember that you molded me like clay.

Will you now turn me to dust again?

10Did you not pour me out like milk

and curdle me like cheese,

11clothe me with skin and flesh

and knit me together with bones and sinews?

12You gave me life and showed me kindness,

and in your providence watched over my spirit.

13“But this is what you concealed in your heart,

and I know that this was in your mind:

14If I sinned, you would be watching me

and would not let my offense go unpunished.

15If I am guilty—woe to me!

Even if I am innocent, I cannot lift my head,

for I am full of shame

and drowned in my affliction.

16If I hold my head high, you stalk me like a lion

and again display your awesome power against me.

17You bring new witnesses against me

and increase your anger toward me;

your forces come against me wave upon wave.

18“Why then did you bring me out of the womb?

I wish I had died before any eye saw me.

19If only I had never come into being,

or had been carried straight from the womb to the grave!

20Are not my few days almost over?

Turn away from me so I can have a moment’s joy

21before I go to the place of no return,

to the land of gloom and deep shadow,

22to the land of deepest night,

of deep shadow and disorder,

where even the light is like darkness.”

RL  2012-11-07 10:17:00


The silliest, shallowest comment you've ever made. Christianity is about forgiveness, but it's decidedly NOT about defining morality out of life.

Helk  2012-11-07 06:22:00

If God has given us choice, then we must tolerate abortion in our world because it follows from free will.

Also, humans are not to judge each other. God is the judge.

Pathetic that no one sees this.

Nick  2012-11-06 04:46:00

As I commented on Brizoni's post, the abortion issue is the place where the groundlessness of the whole atheist project is called out. Atheists have no consistent basis for valuing any life, much less that of an unborn child. Abortion is the use of power by one person to destroy a life because it is deemed expedient to do so. Of course, if you follow the reasoning consistently, there's little compelling reason to not euthanize a two month old baby either. Or any person with certain physiological defects. Or undesirable genetic traits. We all know where these arguments go.

Abortion is at once a validation of their atheism and an exercise of it. Call it into question and watch the wagons circle...

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