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Comments on:   Liberal Fantasies. . . .

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RL  2013-01-28 04:43:00

Yeah. I challenged Chomsky before. He didn't show up. Because I'm smarter and he somehow knows it.

You're not him. Because you don't know it. Any questions? Thought not.

Noam Chomsky  2013-01-28 12:34:00

"we'll all start seeing the light and make sure the troops never leave our shores again. Heaven according to the gospel of Noam Chomsky. "

Is this a challenge Mr. Instapunk?

If so let's have a duel like men shall duel, instead of this slap in the face you present me with and then you tarry onward. The Gospel of Noam Chomsky, please amuse me more with quotations from this particular gospel.

Bill  2013-01-27 12:37:00

I've stayed away from commenting here, but I need to speak on this one. The whole argument misses the point. It's not whether or not a woman can carry a load or shoot a rifle. It's about KILLING.

I killed my first man in combat when I was nineteen years old. Two tours in the infantry in Vietnam allowed me to kill sixteen more. I see their faces and remember each and every one almost fifty years later.

Most men who have seen combat don't talk about it, and that's why. All this bullshit about the glory and honor is just that:bullshit.

The argument is about whether or not we want our sisters and daughters to become killers too. That's a real fucking sweet legacy for some grandmother to remember down the road.

Fucking disgusting.....

Superobserver  2013-01-27 04:42:00

You know more people than I do. But I have an idea.

A TV show that is dedicated to the realization of Liberal Fantasies. Call it "Liberal Fantasies" just to be obvious.

Like a reality TV show, show women in grim and horrible situations, being raped by "friendlies" who are on a blood-lust spree as a result of blowing shit up and nearly dying, and then show the same women get raped by the enemy.

Then show them coming back to the US and being spit on BY LIBERALS. Then show them having dark-skinned children. Then fast forward to their dark skinned children having abortions at age 15 and signing up to join the Navy Seals.

It sounds a little bit like Starship Troopers, right? But it really called "Liberal Fantasies" and in all seriousness, there is a show here.

*Seriously challenge* the Liberal Fantasy by making it into a reality TV show that honestly portrays what is happening to our children.

Helk  2013-01-26 02:29:00

I must again council that the best way to approach this is not to go against it. No. It is to go FOR it. We take the initiative by saying to the Dems, "Yes, by all means, of course women in combat. And let us begin with Seals school. We not only need female warriors, we need Laura Croft!"

OK, you and I know that Hollywood has created totally unrealistic expectations for women soldiers. So let's push the idea to its absolute extreme. By affirming the move it takes all the ammo from the Dems. And by pushing it into the extreme category it will blow up in the Dems faces.

Now I know that it would appear that it would also blow up in our faces. But we have to to do one thing in secret. We have to mail a letter to ourselves, all of us, including our Representatives and Senators, where we acknowledge that we knew it would fail. But we did not want to seem unfair. So we wanted to let the experiment take place. The letter is dated in the past, to be opened in the future. It will absolve us of all responsibility AND it will make us seem like genii.

That way if the women succeed we win and if they fail we win.

Right now we are losing, and losing big. It is because they are putting us on the defensive. And in politics once you are on the defensive you have lost. Period. Do you net get that? Are you seriously not aware that the common denominator in the demonization is that we are on the defensive all the time.

Get it already. Quit fighting; stop being perpendicular to the movement. You must *grease the rails* to win. And to do that you have to determine what the Dems are going to do, and do it before they do it.

Of course, you will bring up the poison pill issue; the one thing that people have been brainwashed into fighting for or against with unthinking stubbornness: Free birth control pills.

But why stop there? Free abortions. And if you have an abortion before you are 18 then your college is paid for also. And if you don't want to go to college but would rather go to Seals school, then we can do that too. *Incentivize* the bad behavior before the Dems can and you will confuse them. You will put THEM on the defensive.

Or sit by and watch out country dissolve into tyranny. Either way, abortion is here to stay and so is birth control. And now it looks like women in combat also. And the Dems are kicking our asses because we are getting defensive about the sanctity of life and of women. Nobody cares about that. You might. I do. We don't count. No amount of crying will change that.

Let's win already. Damn it, stubborn fucking fools. you accuse me of trolling but you are the ones who keep taking the bait. Fuck.

Helk  2013-01-26 12:34:00

Please do not construe what I am saying as support for female combat. I think that the idea of mixing women with men in combat units is terrible and of course would only be advocated by people who have no practical experience in the field.

Camaraderie can evolve more easily absent sexual tension. And how many of us remember the conflicts that arose when we were competing for the pretty girls attention (in high school or maybe even through college). Well these are young men, not all of whom are equally well endowed physically. It is a fools dream to think that the issues associated with mating would not surface between men and women in co-ed units.

Just nonsense. And of course the fat stupid asshats who are suggesting that this is about equality are naive at best and manipulative at worst. I try not to hate humans but it is hard not to hate reptiles shaped as humans.

urthshu  2013-01-25 01:48:00

That excerpt reminded me of another that Paul Fussell wrote about - where the unit had dysentary so bad they ripped out the crotches of their pants. And when they had to abandon their ridgeline they skidded down the ordure-slimed hill, vomiting the while until plunging calf-deep into shit and mouldered body parts.

And, irony, the Violence Against Women Act is up for re-authorization. Maybe they'll add in a clause that'll cover the poor dears in battle conditions.

Fred D  2013-01-25 01:26:00

A couple of points.

First, WRT the IDF - women are allowed into about 92% of all the military positions, but not direct combat roles. Which is pretty much what we had in our services from the mid 90's until now. (A side note: the US allowed women to fly combat aircraft before the IAF did, and the IAF allowed that only after a woman brought a lawsuit against it.)

Second, what the Fox News article didn't report, but CNS did, is extremely troubling:

[Dempsey] added: “Importantly, though, if we do decide that a particular standard is so high that a woman couldn't make it, the burden is now on the service to come back and explain to the secretary, why is it that high? Does it really have to be that high? With the direct combat exclusion provision in place, we never had to have that conversation.”

Nor is that conversation needed now. Instead though, I fear we are going to kill men and women, because we will change the standards. We've changed standards in every such instance over the past 20 years - I've seen that first hand in the Navy.

RL  2013-01-25 12:15:00


Not quite. The Israelis are fighting for survival. It's not about intimidation. Theirs is not fundamentally a PR war. They need fingers on triggers, as many as they can get. Nobody said women can't fight, shoot, and kill. They can. Bravely. The Germans made the same discovery about 12 year old boys in 1945. But it's not what they had in mind in 1939. When the varsity is dead, the Jayvees get promoted, honored, and killed in their turn.

Joe  2013-01-25 08:44:00

"Their women aren't replacing men but augmenting them"

Well, to a certain extent their women are replacing men, the especially religiously observant who "observe touch" and were exempted from duty. They are lifting a lot of those exemptions, though, and forcing those guys to fight, so we'll see how that turns out.

I don't know much about Palestinians, and since they're really the descendants of Greeks rather than Middle Easterners, I can't say how chauvanistic they are with their brand of Islam, but I do know that in Iraq Muslim men do not appreciate American women searching them or making demands of any kind.

Also, the female Israelis are in all-female units. America, being progressive rather than traditionalist, will not stop at getting women integrated into military occupational skills (MOS). It will keep going until Combat Arms units are mixed, with male and female soldiers sleeping (and possibly showering) together.

We have been primed for that by Hollywood, as well. Remember Aliens? Starship Troopers?

Helk  2013-01-25 05:39:00

OK. So what I read from what you just write is that the Israeli's are making the best of a bad situation and the women are not actually effective in the military role but are advertised as such because Israel needs to conflate reality in order to intimidate its neighbors.

Is that about right?

RL  2013-01-25 05:24:00


Israel is a tiny besieged nation. They have no alternative. Their women aren't replacing men but augmenting them. You don't know the underbelly of this story. It has to be reported as a great success because, again, they have no alternative.

Btw, please don't jam a giant web file into the Comments again. It's annoying and accomplishes nothing.

Helk  2013-01-24 11:56:00

RF, how are the Israeli's so successful at introducing women into combat units?

Joe  2013-01-24 09:52:00

The only substantive comment I have is that Stephanie Gutmann laid out the perils succinctly in her book "The Kinder, Gentler Military."

I saw the nightmare in support units, the constant paperwork, the friction, the sexual harassment and Equal Opportunity cases, the hours wasted at the JAG office, the demotions, the courts martial (yes, that is the correct plural of the term "court martial"), the rapes, the false accusations of rape, the female soldiers whose "combat readiness" was greatly diminished by pregnancy (they couldn't even work in the mechanical bay since one cannot be around hazardous material when pregnant), the destruction of espirit de corps that comes when you emasculate men and rob women of their femininity.

I didn't mention any of this earlier because it is just so disheartening, so frustrating, just more agony piled on all of the indignity we have collectively suffered over the last few months that, yes, I tried to make a joke.

RL  2013-01-24 08:10:00


Don't be coarse. You know what's at stake.

Joe  2013-01-24 07:08:00

The last time I got into a fight with a woman, she beat me up but I came, so who really won?

Guy T.  2013-01-24 04:12:00

"After 23 female troops are gang raped to death in a muslim country, we'll all start seeing the light and make sure the troops never leave our shores again."

I'd like to think an alternative is possible -- that the rules of engagement might be reformed to allow soldiers actually to fight wars. But what I'd like to think hasn't mattered much to the government heretofore so I guess it's not likely to start now.

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